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Looking Back

  • Oct. 29th, 2007 at 1:36 PM
Snoopy
From time to time, someone will ask me how many books I've written. I'm embarassed to say I can't always remember. So I thought I'd take a few minutes to look back...

1. Untitled Fantasy Novel: Back in 1995-1996, I started writing pretty much the first fantasy story I had ever done. It was bad. Painfully bad. I was writing about a role-playing character named Nakor the Purple (yes, "Nakor" was stolen from Raymond Feist) in a fairly generic fantasy world. But I had fun writing it. For those of you who have read Goblin Hero, you might be interested to know that this book featured a pair of pixies named Pynne and Whoo.

2. Goldfish Dreams: After that first fantasy novel, I worked on short stories for a while. Then in grad school, I had to do a thesis for my Masters. Since I was concentrating in Creative Writing, a novel was acceptable. So I wrote a mainstream novel about a lot of the rape-related issues I had seen and experienced in my time as a crisis counselor. I finished the book in 1999, and it actually found a home at a small PoD press called Regal Crest Enterprises. It sold maybe 300 copies, and now lives on as a Fictionwise ebook. I think it's pretty darn good, and I wonder if it would have been more successful had I been patient and not rushed to go with such a small publisher. Collected 19 rejections on this one.

3. Foundling: I wrote this one in 2000 as a part of a novel dare. Novel dares are what us old fogies did before NaNoWriMo came along, only we didn't stop at 50,000 words. We aimed for the full 80K in one month. Since I was living in Nevada and didn't have too much of a social life, I actually pulled this off. It's set in present day Nevada, about a race who draws their magical strength from family ... to the point of killing family members if they overextend themselves. I love the premise, but the book needs a lot of work. This one earned 36 rejections.

4. Goblin Quest: You might have heard of this one? After I moved back to Michigan from Nevada, I sat down and did another novel dare. I wrote, revised, and finished this sucker in about six weeks at the end of 2000. That was the last time I wrote a book anywhere near that quickly. 33 rejections, give or take one (long story).

5. Hamadryad: I still like this premise. This was my NaNoWriMo book. It's another present-day fantasy about a hamadryad living in Michigan's upper peninsula. After taking a few years to focus on short fiction, this was supposed to be my breakout novel. I queried agents, got requests for the full manuscript, but never managed to sell it. JABberwocky (my current agency) was one of the agencies that took a closer look, then decided to pass. To this day, my agent makes faces at me when I talk about dusting this book off and trying again. But I may do it anyway, 'cause I liked it. I've got seven documented rejections, but I think my documentation is bad, because I know I queried more agents than that... Heck, there are 11 personalized query letters saved in my Hamadryad folder.

6. Goblin Hero: Originally titled Goblin Mage, I had started writing this book back in 2001, then gave up when the story turned out to be broken. After landing an agent through very odd circumstances, I went back and fixed this one over the course of 2005. My agent then sold both books to DAW in early 2006.

7. The Stepsister Scheme: I began talking about this idea back in 2004, but didn't actually start writing it until late 2005, I think. I'll be dedicating this one to my daughter. It was written after our house acquired one too many princess-themed items. Some of the Disney films aren't too bad, but when we started getting princess books, princess sheets, even princess wipes for the bathroom, it was too much. DAW bought this one in April of 2007.

8. Goblin War: It took about nine months for DAW to decide to buy Stepsister, and I didn't want to start on a sequel until I knew they wanted the first book. So over the course of 2006-2007, I went back and finished up the trilogy of Jig Dragonslayer. I knew I wanted to get the goblins out of their mountain, and I also wanted to revisit some issues from Goblin Quest. I'd say more, but I don't want to spoil anything for you :-)

9. The Mermaid's Madness: DAW did buy the first princess book, so I started in on the next around June of this 2007. I didn't know much about this one, except for a single scene I'd been thinking about for over a year. That scene didn't turn out anywhere near as impressive as I had hoped, once I got it down on the page, but it still provided the foundation for another fun fairy tale book. Mermaid required more rewrites than any book I had written to this date. I turned it in on my deadline date of August 1, 2008.

10. Red Hood's Revenge: Another contracted novel, and the third in the princess series. The first draft took me a long time to write, in part because I wasn't sure whether there would be more books in the series. (There will be at least one more as of April, 2009.) Once again, the deadline's going to be tight....

---

I don't know if anyone else will actually care about this stuff, but I've been wanting to get it down so I could actually look back and figure out what was written when. I suspect Foundling will stay trunked forever. Hamadryad ... we'll see. I may give that one another shot eventually, once I'm a better writer. I want to do a few more princess books first though. (And I'll need to figure out how to persuade my agent not to come after me with a wiffle bat for daring to dust that manuscript off again :-)

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Comments

[info]naturalfractual wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 06:05 pm (UTC)
Cool
I just found a forgotten !! Borders gift card - and I told you I would buy your books - Now I know what to look for!
[info]jimhines wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 06:10 pm (UTC)
Re: Cool
Awesome! I hope you enjoy 'em!
[info]cat_mcdougall wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 06:06 pm (UTC)
Collected 19 rejections on this one.
This one earned 36 rejections.
33 rejections, give or take one (long story)
I've got seven documented rejections, but I think my documentation is bad, because I know I queried more agents than that... Heck, there are 11 personalized query letters saved in my Hamadryad folder.


I swear, I am going to print this out and shove it under some noses.

Story: I take care of a family member who is... less than supportive about my writing. While talking to another family member about an article I'd written being rejected, she broke in and began crowing about the rejections and how if one thing was rejected that "maybe now you'll see that writing is a stupid pastime and you should grow up!"

Seeing all those rejections you just posted up gives me hope. And really makes me want to do violence to show her that rejections are not the end.
[info]jimhines wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 06:09 pm (UTC)
Please do! (The shoving under noses, not the violence ;-)

You might also make them read this.

Sheesh ... I've got somewhere between 500 and 600 rejections total, and I know I'm not at all unusual. Not in that respect, at any rate.

(no subject) - [info]cat_mcdougall - Oct. 29th, 2007 06:14 pm (UTC) Expand
Just keep on keepin' on... - [info]livia_llewellyn - Oct. 29th, 2007 10:58 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Just keep on keepin' on... - [info]cat_mcdougall - Oct. 29th, 2007 11:02 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Just keep on keepin' on... - [info]livia_llewellyn - Oct. 29th, 2007 11:11 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Just keep on keepin' on... - [info]jimhines - Oct. 30th, 2007 12:50 am (UTC) Expand
[info]namelessarchon wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 06:38 pm (UTC)
Nakor the Purple... only a RPer would write about this... I LOVE IT! Keep up the good work Jim!
[info]jimhines wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 06:44 pm (UTC)
Write about it? Heck, my RPG group had Halloween costumes based on our characters one year. ::Hangs head in secret shame::
(no subject) - [info]michaeljasper - Oct. 29th, 2007 06:52 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]jimhines - Oct. 29th, 2007 07:25 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]cat_mcdougall - Oct. 29th, 2007 06:56 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote - Oct. 29th, 2007 07:22 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]melissajm - Oct. 29th, 2007 10:02 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]rhonawestbrook wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 06:43 pm (UTC)
Dude, I so needed to hear this today.

Thanks for sharing!
[info]jimhines wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 06:45 pm (UTC)
Glad it was helpful!
[info]mela_lyn wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 07:05 pm (UTC)
1. I want to read all of these... I have the first Goblin one. I'll let you know when I finally hvae time to sit down and partake.

2. Good to know what it's really like, so when I amass 1000 rejection letters over time, I still don't give up!

3. Don't forget to wear a helmet if you see the wiffle bat.
[info]jimhines wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 07:15 pm (UTC)
I'm on a panel with my agent at Windycon in a few weeks. I plan to taunt him about Hamadryad. The helmet is a good suggestion :-)
(no subject) - [info]mela_lyn - Oct. 29th, 2007 07:46 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]jimhines - Oct. 29th, 2007 07:51 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]mela_lyn - Oct. 29th, 2007 08:06 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]sistercoyote wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 07:21 pm (UTC)
Thanks for this, and thanks for noting how many rejections each one got. It's the sort of thing I'm curious about. :)
[info]jimhines wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 07:24 pm (UTC)
The rejections were actually an afterthought, but I thought folks might be interested...
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote - Oct. 29th, 2007 07:32 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]jimhines - Oct. 29th, 2007 07:37 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]melissajm - Oct. 29th, 2007 10:06 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]jimhines - Oct. 29th, 2007 10:29 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]melissajm - Oct. 30th, 2007 12:15 am (UTC) Expand
[info]david_de_beer wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 07:24 pm (UTC)
this is very handy stuff, thanks Jim. Am sure a lot of people would need to see this and take a bit of heart:)
[info]jimhines wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 07:37 pm (UTC)
I hope so. I know it was always reassuring to me to know that the bigger names had unpublished garbage and boxes of rejection letters...
(no subject) - [info]melissajm - Oct. 29th, 2007 10:04 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]matociquala wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 08:11 pm (UTC)
Good on you, man.
[info]jimhines wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 08:35 pm (UTC)
Thanks!

You know the sad thing? I look at that list now and think, "Well, it's a decent start..."
(no subject) - [info]matociquala - Oct. 29th, 2007 08:55 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]jimhines - Oct. 29th, 2007 09:30 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]matociquala - Oct. 29th, 2007 09:40 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]ckastens wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 09:31 pm (UTC)
Thanks, Jim! Very interesting post.
[info]jimhines wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 10:25 pm (UTC)
You're most welcome!
[info]namelessarchon wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 09:39 pm (UTC)
I have to add a couple of other interesting thoughts in all this.

1. you got you 4th novel published, which is the industry standard, believe it or not.

2. you have indicated a large number of rejections for each book, but as far as I can tell you cannot submit any manuscript to big publishers without an agent [other then the holy trinity of DAW, BAEN, and TOR]. How is it possible that you sent manuscripts out to so many places when you did not have an agent? This, I would LOVE to know...
[info]jimhines wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 10:22 pm (UTC)
I believe there are one or two others who take unagent subs. And Goldfish Dreams was mainstream, so that's a slightly different situation.

But most of those numbers include some smaller publishers as well as some agent rejections.
[info]wldhrsjen3 wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2007 10:41 pm (UTC)
Hi - A friend linked to your page, and I just have to tell you I am *so* glad to see your list. It's such an encouragement to those of us who wince every time we send off a submission. Thanks for posting.

I hope you don't mind if I add you to my f-list. :)
[info]jimhines wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2007 12:52 am (UTC)
Of course I don't mind. Welcome! And I'm glad the list was helpful. I've gotten a lot of help over the years (still do, actually), so it makes me smile when I can pay it forward a bit.
[info]will_couvillier wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2007 02:15 am (UTC)
You were from Nevada?

Interesting.
[info]jimhines wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2007 11:28 am (UTC)
I'm from Michigan, but after grad school (when I discovered that a Masters in English isn't all that useful) I spent a year or so in Elko, NV doing computer support. I still miss the mountains.
(no subject) - [info]will_couvillier - Oct. 30th, 2007 02:40 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]jimhines - Oct. 30th, 2007 06:32 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]will_couvillier - Oct. 30th, 2007 07:15 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]jimhines - Oct. 30th, 2007 07:20 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]bodlon wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2007 02:38 am (UTC)
30+ rejections.

*blink*

Okay. I've just learned something useful. :)
[info]jimhines wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2007 02:22 pm (UTC)
I know one person who sold her very first submission to a major pro market. For the rest of us, rejection is a very normal part of the game :-)
[info]ashenseraph wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2007 03:42 am (UTC)
Very Helpful!
Great post, Jim — I've linked to it on my "writerly" blog DruPagliassotti.Com. Hope you don't mind, but I think lots of struggling writers will appreciate this.
[info]jimhines wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2007 11:28 am (UTC)
Re: Very Helpful!
I don't mind at all - thank you!
[info]hyperbard wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2007 09:18 pm (UTC)
Wow, this is very helpful - Inspiration for us younger ones. By the way, I loooove the artwork on the books:) I'd like to add you to my list too!
[info]jimhines wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2007 09:30 pm (UTC)
Thanks, and welcome! Mel Grant is the artist, and he did a wonderful job on all three of the goblin books. I feel pretty lucky that he was the one to do the covers.

And you're more than welcome to add me to your list. I think I need to put a note about that in my profile...
[info]jlapp wrote:
Oct. 31st, 2007 08:19 pm (UTC)
Great post, Jim. This stuff really encourages me to actually start on the old novel, even though it probably won't get picked up. Maybe the third or fourth attempt will be.
[info]jimhines wrote:
Nov. 1st, 2007 10:49 pm (UTC)
Thanks! Glad it's helpful. And even if the early books don't sell, you learn a lot from writing them, and the best bits can always be recycled into later books.