I've been doing a lot with fairy tales lately. In addition to the CatsCurious Faery Tale project, there's also The Stepsister Scheme and the current novel-in-progress, The Mermaid's Madness. I also did a short story called "The Red Path" for another fairy tale anthology a few months back. And of course there's my novelette "Sister of the Hedge" from Realms of Fantasy a while ago.
One thing I've noticed is how these stories have a very clear message and moral. Red Riding Hood has a pretty blatant message about not trusting strangers, because otherwise they'll eat you. The Little Mermaid has some graphic symbolism about premarital sex and the fate that awaits a young girl who gives herself to a boy.
And then you've got Sleeping Beauty, one of my central characters for the princess series. In some versions of this tale, this character wasn't awakened by a chaste kiss from a loving prince. Oh no, instead we have a king who finds a woman unconscious and helpless, at which point, "...he beheld her charms and felt his blood course hotly through his veins. He lifted her in his arms, and carried her to a bed, where he gathered the first fruits of love. Leaving her on the bed, he returned to his own kingdom, where, in the pressing business of his realm, he for a time thought no more about this incident."
I keep thinking about this, in part because I'm still following various threads and discussions on last week's post about rape. I just find it strange and depressing how well this centuries-old tale fits today. I know a lot of people who have woken up to find some guy
Strange how little some things change over the centuries.
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Comments
It's frightening to think that, but for accident of birth, I could have been born into a country where war has destroyed the fabric of common decency and conscience.
"Sleeping Beauty" is barely 300 years old. Look at the "Epic of Gilgamesh", where Gilgamesh proved unpopular because he kept coercing his nobles' wives. In Genesis, Abraham passed Sarah around like a party favor. Amnon and Tamar in the Book of Kings, perhaps. Or the legends of Zeus, or Ajax the Lesser.
I think you can perhaps change individuals, but human nature itself does not change, not ever. That makes me wonder if the modern world and all its sensibilities are only chimaeras, a brief dream; that when the oil finally runs out we'll roll right back to the world of Zeus and Gilgamesh.
-JM
The mermaid realizes she does not have to change and finds someone who loves her just the way she is?
I see some possibilities here too. Strong heroines who realize they don't have to be victims.
And I can't wait to read the "Jim-i-fied" versions of these tales. :)
8+ months to go. Not that I'm counting or anything :-)
Agreed. However, threads like the ones you've been hosting here in your journal give me hope. They provide opportunities for people who normally don't participate in discussions on this topic to hear the perspectives of victims and advocates, and to expand their understanding of what can make people feel sexually violated. And I hope that by spreading understanding, more people will think about what they're doing before the incident, so that it won't happen at all.
When I posted a snippet of my comment to one of your earlier posts in another discussion, I was given a startling example* of the sort of attitude that hinders the subtlety of understanding we need. I would love to see some fiction (or other art) come out of all this that would help reach people such as this, who are having trouble hearing the message.
* PSA: Link is for illustrative purposes only. Sticking one's hand in the crazy not recommended.
That's just illustrative of so many different things.
The way we create such a powerful dichotomy of "us" (the good guys) vs. "them" (the crazy sicko bastards), which means clearly there's nothing for us to worry about, because there's such a huge chasm between me and those rapists.
The way guys take these things so personally. If I say "Men need to be taught about consent and respect in order to avoid crossing that line," he hears "You personally are a sick bastard who's probably going to go out and rape someone, dude!"
And of course the idea that he knows exactly what rape is and isn't. Because the angry, aggressive guy should be the one who defines that line, right? And he should know it without ever having to be taught, or having to listen to what anyone else thinks.
You know, if I'm the only one who gets to define what is and isn't rape, what is and isn't force, what is and isn't coercion (because of course I know this, and how dare you suggest my black and white worldview might not be 100% correct) ... well, that actually makes me think you're a much riskier human being than most.
The discussion has continued, though, and now that everyone is calmer, it seems more reasonable. It appears that much of the problem has been word choice, and they are trying to hammer the semantics out some.
However, his position still seems to be that he "knows" what constitutes rape, or assault, or sexual harassment, or any of the other terms, and that anyone who doesn't agree with him (whether on not he has even explicitly articulated his definitions) is wrong, end of discussion. I am disturbed by the idea that any one person's individual judgment should be the final determination, particularly when: that person is arguing based upon their "gut" reaction rather than evidence, they have no personal experience with the issue in question, they disregard psychosocial elements of the situation (see his comments on free will), and they categorically deny that a person can "do that to [a] person without knowing what [they] did".
I am thinking a great deal about how to discuss prevention in the future in a way that won't close the ears of the people who need to hear it most. (For example, it seems that an emotionally-charged word like 'rape' may be too inflammatory to use in this context in mixed company.) How can we talk about it without the entire discussion getting co-opted by a semantics argument? How can we communicate our message without (or despite) triggering people's defense mechanisms? How can we be effective?
I actually had a Firefly reference worked into the first draft of the novel-in-progress, but there were potential copyright issues, so I ended up taking it out in revision. Sigh.
I parodied The Giving Tree in Goblin War, and I know I'm okay there. Parody is protected, and I never actually mention Silverstein's book.
In this case, I was quoting a few lines of the theme song, tweaking them to fit the scene. Lyrics are much more tightly protected, and it wasn't an outright parody, so I suspect I would have needed permission to use that quote. Particularly since this would have been a commercial use (for a book I'll be making money off of) as opposed to a scholarly one.
Bottom line though, fair use is ... not something I'm expert enough to really talk about.
Since the characters I'm writing are fans on a lot of the geeky subculture stuff, I may roll with it, see how it goes, and if/when I get a contract, will be willing to change up those scenes if rights become an issue.
Nobody gives a shit about Elric's rapeability.
Fucking hell.
One thing I've noticed is how these stories have a very clear message and moral.
A code of conduct for women, even. 'Know your place'.
What bothers me most is that hundreds of years later, Disney and such still sell the same story. The changes a minimal (mostly for blood and gore) and the underlying message comes out clear.
So, what I'm wondering is: since you have kids, how do you handle the subtext in fairytales/movies? Talk when they're older and can understand things better? Trust them to get it later on their own? Explain while watching?
Speaking of blatant messages in fairytales, Donkeyskin still gives me the creeps.
The questionable version of Sleeping Beauty reminds me of Neil Gaiman's Snow, Glass, Apples. Then again, Gaiman's story is meant to be scary.:/
Ps. Your last weeks post about rape was exceptionally interesting. Education about sexual harassment/violence should begin from the fact that the victims are our mothers/sisters/daughters/etc. (not forgetting the menfolk) and not some stranger when the rapist is 'somebody your friend knows'.
Good question. The easy answer, of course, is that I write my own. The Stepsister Scheme started entirely because of my frustration with the commercial fairy tale princess imagery my daughter was drowning in.
Some things we haven't talked about yet. I don't know that she'd understand a discussion about Beauty and the Beast, and the myth that if the woman is only good and sweet and beautiful enough, then she can tame the beast.
Right now, it's more watching her interactions with her friends. Trying to help her learn to be assertive and confident without being domineering. One of the reasons I'm so pleased with the self-defense we've been taking is that it's helping her with that confidence.
:) That's just cheating.:D
And just so's you know, self-defense made a *huge* difference in my life. I still reap the benefits today.
I'd actually say that the biggest Disney changes are the happy endings without consequence. There are actually lessons to be learned from fairy tales and folk tales that aren't of the "put women in their place" variety, and as much as I enjoy my Disney movies, some of the value goes away in the "happily ever after" required ending.
I probably shouldn't have said a code of conduct for women only. It does work for everybody even tho the main characters were/are mostly women. :D
(And yes, not all of it is bad. Don't trust strangers is great advice still. Be nice to mean people because someday your prince will come? Not so much.)
I'm sort of in between opinions with the Disney endings. Sure, the original might suit me as a grown up better but since Disney does the movies mainly for kids would I like to explain to a child why Little Mermaid dies at the end?
What's your opinion about Enchanted? If you don't mind me asking?
I actually grew up on Fairy Tale Theatre, live action, forty minute fairy tale performances, and the Little Mermaid does, in fact, choose to become nothing rather than kill her lover's wife. We watched that when I was about seven or eight (my sister three or four) and I don't think we ever had to ask why it happened. It was sad, but that's how the story went. It just didn't have a regee-singing crab. ;)
I have yet to see Enchanted (I'm on the holds list at the library), but I'm looking forward to it. I cut my teeth on fairy tales, from picture books to old school Grimm collections, to Disney, all at once, so I have a love for all them, even while I recognize that the Disneyfied version isn't the same story. From what I've heard, I'm *hoping* that means I'll enjoy Enchanted, but we'll see. That said, I'm a huge fan of Sondheim's Into the Woods. Which means, of course, that my entire worldview is skewed. ;)
We watched that when I was about seven or eight (my sister three or four) and I don't think we ever had to ask why it happened.
Funny how that's about the same age I was first read the Little Mermaid.:D I remember being quite captivated by it and at the same time very inquisitive about the choices made in the story.
(I still feel sorry for my aunt who had thought that it would be a nice bedtime story and then getting the child version of the Spanish inquisition.)
From what I've heard, I'm *hoping* that means I'll enjoy Enchanted, but we'll see.</i) I think you'll like it. :) Despite being Disney and occasionally not going far enough, the casting was nicely done and it had quite a few really funny scenes. :D I was especially impressed by James Marsden as the Prince.