Since a number of people said I should go ahead and do it, I’ve created a Jim C. Hines Fan Page over on Facebook. I blame you all.
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I found myself in several Internet squabbles last week. One started on Twitter after one of my #Amazonfail posts. In that case, the other person and I swapped e-mails, and that was the end of it. I don’t think we changed each other’s minds, but it gave me another perspective to think about, and I appreciate that.
Another didn’t go so well. This was someone I know not to bother talking to in normal circumstances, but he was talking crap about a friend of mine, so I called him on it. The conversation went downhill from there. I eventually walked away, but I should have ended it much sooner.
It’s hard to walk away. I know where xkcd is coming from with this strip. It’s one thing to have an intelligent debate. Unfortunately, most of these arguments end up being the opposite of intelligent … yet the more the stupidity grows, the harder it is to walk away. It’s like the mosquito that keeps buzzing around the room, and you can’t go to bed until you’ve squashed the damn thing.
But you can’t squash online stupid. So I’m trying to learn when to let it go. As a part of that lesson, I put together some questions to ask myself, to help me recognize when it’s time to stop.
- What point(s) did I set out to make? Have I made them?
- Am I just pouring my own stupid onto the fire now?
- Is there anything the other person could say to make me agree with their point of view? (If not, it’s a good bet nothing I say will make them change their mind, either.)
- Who else is involved, either actively or otherwise? For example, arguing with a Publish America author might not change that author’s mind, but might educate and help others reading the exchange.
- Have I had this same argument with this person before? (If so, see Einstein’s quote about repeating the same behavior and expecting a different result.)
- Is this spilling into my real life? (Am I going back to the argument when I should be writing? Am I letting this person make me cranky in my interactions with my family?)
- What is my goal? Am I trying to win? (Never going to happen. What would “winning” even look like?)
- Would I say these words to the other person’s face?
- Can anything come of the argument that will make my life or anyone else’s better?
From time to time, my karate sensei talks about bullies and insults. If someone tells you you’re ugly, you smile and say “Thank you very much,” then walk away. Because why should that person’s opinion have any power over you? They’re not the most important person in your life. The people who do matter, they’re the ones whose opinions I should care about. Not some online twit.
Easier said than done. It feels almost unjust to allow someone to keep being wrong on the Internet. “That person is Wrong! We can’t let him get away with it!”
I hate fighting. I’m not someone who takes pleasure is taunting or trashing another person online. But I believe some battles do need to be fought. I also think there’s a time when I’ve made my point and need to walk away. I just need to get better about recognizing that time.
Mirrored from Jim C. Hines.
My Books
(August 2013)
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Comments
Some of the people on the board seem to enjoy these "altercations". Pesonally, I find a judicious use of the "ignore" function works well.
My on-line philosophy has become "Life's too short to deal with internet idiots. Ignore and move on." (I think that comes from my old days on Compuserve *grin*)
Heck with that. I want an Ignore Button!
Not that I've watched you throw poo, your disagreements on your journal have always been civil, so I'd be interested in seeing what made you mad and how you responded. I'm betting for most of us veteran poo flingers, your's wouldn't even reach the rank of little lemur.
Things here have generally been mild and respectful, and I love that. I've tried to work to keep that tone, and I think the community of people who hang out here have done the same, building those expectations and standards. It's really nice.
It's so easy to get carried away, isn't it? These are some good thoughts and guidelines. I wish more people spent time thinking about this stuff.
You're right, though. The soft approach does tend to work so much better in a lot of cases. I think of it as online aikido :-)
Of course, the "ignore" function also works great, as @nighwolfwriter points out.
"One is, don’t repeat yourself. When once you have said your say, fully and clearly, on a certain point, and have failed to convince your friend, drop that subject: to repeat your arguments, all over again, will simply lead to his doing the same; and so you will go on, like a Circulating Decimal. Did you ever know a Circulating Decimal come to an end? "
Lewis Carroll
It all sounds so sensible in theory :-)
1 Stay for three exchanges (since after that you're probably repeating yourself).
2 Make each post shorter than your previous post.
3 Make each post shorter than the one you are replying to.
I would add:
4. If things get personal, walk away.
My own most frequent mistake is to assume good will. If others attack me personally, I assume they're just not communicating well. So I stick around until I actually start to get angry, by which time it's a lot harder to disengage. Much better to refrain from engaging with such people in the first place.
mpe
Ms. Manners also recommends the "say 'thank you' and walk away" approach, though she notes that it's effective because it leaves the insulter wondering how you managed to find a compliment in their words. Confusion to the enemy!
I have a difficult time with this, personally. I don't argue online, but I'm bad about letting what other people say/their opinions affect me and make me feel bad. This is something I need to work on.
I think your thoughts in this post are right on. Online arguments just aren't worth it.
Deep breaths. Walk away. How right you are.
mpe
I try to avoid stuff like that, mostly because I'm a nobody so no one cares what I think (on the internet that is) and I've never had any of my friends attacked so... Just stay away. But you're right, some battles must be fought.
Followed you on FB. :) welcome to the dark side.
I lost a really good friend recently over a tiny incident that got blown way out of proportion (in real life, not the internet). This happened, in part, because she is someone who enjoys drama. I am now avoiding drama--online and off--for all it's worth. So you can place me firmly in the "make your point once and then walk away" camp.
And I always try to remind myself that no one sees themselves as the bad guy, and that most points of view have at least some validity. (In some cases, you have to look REALLY REALLY hard to find it, though.)
If after explaining what I think twice, I haven't made my point, it's not going to get made. Either I'm wrong, unclear, or no one is interested. I'm still bitter about some debates I've walked away from, because I know no one really understood what I was trying to say... but odds are, it wasn't going to get better, and at least I didn't firmly establish my identity as a stubborn jerk.
In the internet mere fleeting jerk-ness is pretty easy to forget. :)
Erm- the argument might go better if you stick with making your own point... *grin* Unless you're trying for a Looney Toons routine, of course.
(Sorry. Cannot resist pointing out funny typos. My mamma obviously didn't raise me right.)
Also, it's rabbit season!
Unless it's directed at me or mine, I let folks get on with the stupid; and the hating; and the mocking; and the condescension; and the... well, you get the picture :)
So, uh, thanks for the good timing.