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The Great Rape Conspiracy

Rescued - Red

comrade_cat posted about an article by Heather MacDonald called The Campus Rape Myth, which takes on the “campus rape industry.”  Warning: reading the article is likely to significantly raise your blood pressure.

MacDonald spews more than 6000 words to “debunk” college rape as a ridiculously overblown myth fueled by false reports, radical feminist research, and slutty college girls.

She’s not alone in her beliefs.  I remember a response to one of my own rape posts, in which a man said he liked what I was saying, but thought I was making up the part about how many of my friends had been raped, because he didn’t believe it happened that often.

As pissed off as I was by this response, I couldn’t help appreciating the parallel … after all, how often do rape victims share their stories, only to be told they’re lying?

MacDonald targets a single article in her attempt to reveal the falsehoods of the great rape conspiracy:

“The campus rape industry’s central tenet is that one-quarter of all college girls will be raped or be the targets of attempted rape by the end of their college years … This claim, first published in Ms. magazine in 1987, took the universities by storm.”

She goes on to point out that many of these “so-called” rape victims didn’t identify the experience as rape, and didn’t even report it!  She also refers to a 2000 study by the Department of Justice.  I assume she means The Sexual Victimization of College Women, which studied rapes over six months and estimated that “Over the course of a college career — which now lasts an average of 5 years — the percentage of completed or attempted rape victimization among women in higher educational institutions might climb to between one-fifth and one-quarter.”  (As everyone knows, the U. S. Government is a just hotbed of radical feminism.)

Page 23 of the study lists some reasons women chose not to report:

“…common answers included that the incident was not serious enough to report and that it was not clear that a crime was committed. Other  reasons, however, suggested that there were barriers to reporting. Such answers included not wanting family or other people to know about the incident, lack of proof the incident happened, fear of reprisal by the  assailant, fear of being treated with hostility by the police, and  anticipation that the police would not believe the incident was serious enough and/or would not want to be bothered with the incident.”

Gosh, where could they have gotten the idea that people won’t take them seriously if it was friend or date raped them?  How could they think that if they were raped after partying or drinking, that they might be mocked and treated with outright hostility?  Who taught them that unless it was a black stranger with a knife, it doesn’t count as a “real” rape?1

Buried in MacDonald’s article is a valid point.  When working in rape education and prevention, I saw a tendency to toss statistics about without being able to back them up or explain where they come from.  Given how many people refuse to accept how common rape is, I believe it’s important to back up the numbers when possible.

Mostly though, MacDonald’s article is crap.  Sadly, it’s crap a lot of people choose to believe.  Because we don’t want to admit rape can and has happened to people we love.  Because it’s easier to ridicule the numbers — and the victims — than to accept we have a problem.

I’ve mentioned sitting in my college dorm with several female friends when two guys walked by, mocking the 1-in-4 statistic.  “If that were right, it would mean one of you had been raped,” said one.  Unstated was the assumption that this was utterly ridiculous.  How absurd to think that someone he knew had experienced such a horrible crime?

Of course, he was right.  MacDonald does the same thing in her article:

“The one-in-four statistic would mean that every year, millions of young women graduate who have suffered the most terrifying assault, short of murder, that a woman can experience.”

Well, yes.  That’s the point.  And you can either turn your back on those women, or you can open your eyes and try to do something about it.

  1. From MacDonald’s article, “Like many stranger rapists on campus, the knifepoint assailant was black, and thus an unattractive target for politically correct protest.”

Mirrored from Jim C. Hines.

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Comments

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greenmtnboy18
Apr. 14th, 2010 01:38 pm (UTC)
ARRRRRRRRRGH.

That is all. I cannot do the raised blood pressure thing right now. Too much parental health issues already ratcheting that number up up up.

[headdesk headdesk headdesk]
jimhines
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:07 pm (UTC)
There's only so much stress anyone can take in a given day. Please remember to take care of yourself, too.
queenoftheskies
Apr. 14th, 2010 01:42 pm (UTC)
For a while, my daughter attended a local community college in a very nice area near home. I was horrified to learn that the instance of rape on that nice campus was very high and I strongly recommended my daughter NOT take any night classes. Anything she had to attend at night, I was there waiting EARLY so she wouldn't have to come out alone.

So many people seem to think the topic is something to make fun of. I online game (World of Warcraft) and belong to a ladies LJ WoW community. Yesterday, someone posted about being in a dungeon with a character named Irapewomen.

Can you imagine that? Someone naming a charater that?

Well, she sat down and refused to go another step until he was kicked from the party and then she contacted Blizzard and reported him.

Other people commented to relate similar stories with character names and guild names and both men and woman on the list went on to express their horror. (And tell stories about these people getting banned.)

What do people think when they promote that feeling in a public "community" such as an online game? Are they adults? Children? Do they really think the things they "promote" are okay?
mtlawson
Apr. 14th, 2010 01:50 pm (UTC)
Can you imagine that? Someone naming a charater that?

Considering what some people name their toons, yeah I can see that. Unfortunately.
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mtlawson
Apr. 14th, 2010 01:45 pm (UTC)
Raise your blood pressure is right.

As everyone knows, the U. S. Government is a just hotbed of radical feminism.

I think therein lies part of the problem. A lot of people actually do think that.

And a lot of people -and I include myself in this- don't think enough of what the perception is from people different than you. There is a blind acceptance of what you perceive to be the one true way, and there is a lack of comprehension that someone else might view things differently. Being surrounded by people who think and act similarly to you enhances that perception.
jimhines
Apr. 14th, 2010 01:50 pm (UTC)
Definitely. Groupmind is nasty, and it's even easier to fall into that trap online.

It's one of the reasons I like to cite actual reports and data whenever possible, beccause I cling to the hope (naive as it might be) that actual data might chip through some of the groupmind...
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data helps some people - kilks401 - Apr. 14th, 2010 06:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
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suricattus
Apr. 14th, 2010 01:46 pm (UTC)
just reading your post raised my BP....

"Yes, dude, odds are high that someone you know has been sexually assaulted. Maybe even by someone you know."
jimhines
Apr. 14th, 2010 01:51 pm (UTC)
Every time I hear someone tell me "Well, I don't know anyone who's been raped," it makes me want to punch them.

Not that this is a problem to be solved by punching, but damn it would make me feel better sometimes...
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deborahblakehps
Apr. 14th, 2010 01:46 pm (UTC)
ARrrggghhhhhh!

*blood pressure skyrockets*

Here's a statistical fun fact :-) When I was in college, I was raped by my then boyfriend. Told my closest male friend, who then... well, let's just say it was a bad week. Can you say trust issues? Sorry about skewing the stats, though. My bad.

And no, I didn't report it. These were men who I allowed into my life. Even got naked with on purpose on occasion. BUT NOT ON THOSE OCCASIONS. That's the point. On those occasions, it was against my will. A violation not just of my body, but of my trust, my love, and my friendship.

Many years later, they are a distant memory that no longer hurts, thank the gods. But it took a long time (and some terrific not-rapist-guys) to get there.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including Ms. MacDonald. But my opinion is, she can kiss my--

Ooops, there goes the blood pressure again :-)

jimhines
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:11 pm (UTC)
My opinion is very much in line with yours. The first draft of this post contained a great deal of profanity.

I think "bad week" is an understatement, and I'm very sorry they chose to do that to you.

Rape is rape, and MacDonald is full of shit.
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(Anonymous)
Apr. 14th, 2010 01:56 pm (UTC)
Forgive me for posting anonymously*, but I think you'll probably understand why I have.

You mentioned the 1 in 4 statistic, and the way a man mocked it, and I wanted to share an anecdote with you about another statistic. Around ten years ago (at the height of the Atlanta Gold Club Scandal) I was a stripper in an Atlanta strip club (not The Gold Club), and one night, a customer asked me some very personal questions about my past, and when I refused to answer them, he admitted that he was just following up on a statistic that he had once read--that all strippers have been the victim of sexual abuse or assault. As it happens, I had been, as a child, and I was not comforted by that statistic. I didn't believe it. <>All of them?</i>

Well, strip clubs dressing rooms usually have the social dynamic of a middle school girl's slumber party. Lots of melodrama and cliques and cat-fights--that's almost a cliche--but on slow nights girls hang out in the dressing room a lot (infinitely preferable than spending time with customers who aren't spending money). I had a better vantage point than the customer who asked me, because I was just like all the other girls. So I started asking other girls. First just the girls I was close to, but then when the statistic held true (100 percent of all strippers...! he had said) I began to ask others, and when I had asked 30 or 40 girls, I started to have this very uncomfortable need to find someone who would say "No, that never happened to me."

I only worked at that job for a couple of years, at a couple of clubs, but if I could find a way to ask my coworkers if they have ever been the victim of a sex crime prior to working as a stripper, I asked. I asked over a hundred girls, though I didn't keep any formal log of the results. Every single one I asked had been a victim. Child molestation. Incest. Rape.

I don't know what that means, but I find it haunts me. And it makes me want to smack people who laugh at the 1 in 4 statistic.
jimhines
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:15 pm (UTC)
Haunting is the right word. Haunting and horrifying.

And I refuse to think about the excuses people like MacDonald would invent to ignore or minimize this.
shekkara
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:04 pm (UTC)
Well said. Of course, what goes with that 1 in 4 statistic is the fact that more men have committed rape than are willing to admit it. Either they can't see that their actions were assault or rape, or they know it is but to admit it to themselves means to redefine themselves in a way that is very unpleasant and people work very hard to define themselves and their actions in way that they see as positive.
jimhines
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:17 pm (UTC)
True. And articles like MacDonald's make it easier for men to justify and rationalize their own choices and behaviors, because "It's not *really* rape."
baka_kit
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:05 pm (UTC)
When I was living in the dorms, I almost always took my clothes home to do my washing because there was only one exit to the laundry room. It made me feel trapped.

Later, I heard rumors that some girl had been raped in one of them.

Also, people were always leaving the security doors propped open. I'd close them when I went through, despite people (women, even) giving me a hard time about it.
la_marquise_de_
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:06 pm (UTC)
Her logic is flawed all over: I particularly admire how she complains about the rape-counsellors' 'defining' rape at victims but later on goes on to say that a young woman who feels she was raped was complicit in her rape by her behaviour. The idea that young men might like to exercise control seems not to have occurred to her, or to be something she can't imagine.
jimhines
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:21 pm (UTC)
One of the things I saw working at the rape crisis center is how hard it was for people to say the word rape. They would talk around what had happened to them. They'd hint at it. But actually saying the word was incredibly hard. It made it real.

So yes, we defined rape. And we asked if what had happened to them was rape. Most of the time, they said yes. It was hard, but it also helped them to be able to start talking more openly about what happened.
(no subject) - la_marquise_de_ - Apr. 14th, 2010 04:27 pm (UTC) - Expand
cat_mcdougall
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:06 pm (UTC)
(As I've stated before, I was raped, by my husband, and while I reported it, the authorities refused to believe it was 'rape' and not merely 'rough consensual sex' because as my husband, he couldn't rape me, despite us being separated.)

I got into a debate with an acquaintance once. He argued that I shouldn't be talking to my daughters about what the definition of 'rape' was. When I asked him just how they would learn what it was, if I didn't teach them, he claimed that 'they would just know'.

... I am SO SICK of the aura of silence surrounding rape. I'm TIRED of people looking at those statistics and telling ME and other rape survivors that "it's not really rape" or "well, you didn't report it, so it wasn't that bad" or "the statistics can't be that high".

They are. How many law enforcement officials don't report what they feel are fictitious rapes? Women - and men - remain silent because they know NO ONE will believe them. I look at those statistics and wonder how far off they are. Not how high they are, but how low. How low ARE they?

And it all begins with silence. It all begins because someone is shamed into never speaking, is told that it couldn't possibly have happened, or is told that they just didn't know they'd consented.

This rambles a lot (I've been up for over 24 hours, spring colds have sprung in the house) but, I have to say the numbers scare me, because I have to wonder just how low they might be.

(As always, Jim, I want to say THANK YOU for standing up and speaking about this. You're one of the few helping break the silence, and hopefully, break the ignorance surrounding rape.)
jimhines
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:34 pm (UTC)
A quick check online shows that even in the mid eighties, only 25 of 50 states had any sort of law making it illegal for a man to rape his wife. Meaning that in the other 25... It's mind-blowing and disgusting.

"They would just know"??? What the hell?

So much of this crap seems to come down to "Please stop talking about rape, because it's unpleasant and not my problem and I don't want to think about it." Because my comfort is more important than your safety.

I have no words for my disgust with that attitude.
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marthawells
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:07 pm (UTC)
The deliberate blindness in that MacDonald article is just bizarre. And infuriating.
jimhines
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:53 pm (UTC)
It's a depressing example of "I reject your reality and replace it with my own."
(Deleted comment)
jimhines
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:47 pm (UTC)
"Well with that attitude, is it any wonder that none of the women you know have told you what's happened to them?"

Exactly. Like tithenai said, it's not like rape survivors go around wearing big red R's for the convenience of the clueless. And if you're an asshole, then no, the odds are that people aren't going to confide in you.
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sylvanstargazer
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:21 pm (UTC)
I suggest also checking out new research into undetected rapists: http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/03/25/predator-theory/

Though not focused specifically at colleges, the math struck me. 6% of men in a general population survey had raped someone. ~63% of those had raped more than one person, averaging 5.8 victims each. Which if you assume approximate parity between men and women and no repeat victims (given the hand-wavy nature of this exercise, including the fact that we're relying on men admitting that they raped people in the first place), would suggest that about 12% of the population, men and women, would have been raped by self-reported rapists. The study that looked at men going into the military found 13% admitted to having raped someone, which would mean that 26% of the population, men and women, would have been raped.

They didn't ask about female perpetrators, either, and didn't include those who had been caught, so the idea that the "1 in 4 women" number is unreasonably high seems patently absurd.
jimhines
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:52 pm (UTC)
Thank you for that link. It's something I've been interested in learning more about, but haven't been able to find a lot of research. (Go figure ... you'd think society didn't want to think about this stuff or something.)
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thewallflower00
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:27 pm (UTC)
My blood pressure is not boiling, but intrigued. The more I learn about the nature of rape, the more fascinating it becomes.

That's a compliment, Mr. Hines, in a weird way. I'm fascinated because truths are being exposed to me. And I'm understanding more about the truth behind rape from a first-hand source. You are educating me, and I am grateful.

I have one question: One of the things that the article mentions is an anecdote about a person who is raped, but doesn't remember much of it because she was so drunk, but felt that he took "advantage of her vulnerability". I know it's rape if there is no consent (if the person said no), but is it rape if there's a lack of consent? (if the person did not say no or was incapable of saying no or declined to say no). That would seem to imply consent to me, but there's probably more to it than that.

To be honest, I don't have much sympathy for the victim in this case, but I want to make sure that sympathy's not misplaced.
samhenderson
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:38 pm (UTC)
Somebody incapable of saying no = implied consent to you?
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mardott
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:43 pm (UTC)
While reading this, I fumbled around my brain to see how many women I knew that had been raped. I came up with four in the first 30 seconds. If I spent more time thinking about it, what would the number be? If I asked around, how many more would I find?

All of these women were raped by acquaintances, three of them in a college environment.

What a society.

jimhines
Apr. 14th, 2010 02:49 pm (UTC)
I stopped counting years ago. There were just too many.

In most cases, it was either date/acquaintance rape or incest, matching the statistics that suggest most victims know their rapist.
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barbarienne
Apr. 14th, 2010 03:01 pm (UTC)
I completely agree with you regarding the numbers. It's a problem that cuts both ways, and either way, it hurts the chances of this problem being lessened and women being believed.

I wonder if there are particular sub-populations of women on college campuses who are more likely to be assaulted, so that you end up not with one-in-four, but with pockets of one-in-ten and pockets of four-in-five. (NB: sub-populations in this context might be "graduate students" or "women in [x] majors" or "sorority members" or "the lacrosse team" or whatever. Definitely not saying "groups of slutty girls.")

And of course we also have the problem of terminology. Is it rapes, sexual assaults, harassment (which can be active or passive)? Do different people draw different lines defining those terms? Do some categories or varieties of assault get reported more or less than others? Do reported incidents get dealt with on a "local" level (e.g. by an RA or department supervisor) and never get into the larger statistical database?

And of course, are the stats for "during the years a particular woman is in college" or are they for "during the lifetime of a college-educated woman"? Or any number of other permutations that can be easily mistranslated as people discuss things?

I think the only reasonable conclusion is that a lot of shit happens, and we as a culture aren't addressing it very well.
jimhines
Apr. 14th, 2010 03:06 pm (UTC)
I believe the DoJ study did find the numbers were lower for graduate students than for undergrads. In my case, I suspect the numbers were higher in my peer group, partly because most of that group were friends from the crisis/rape hotline. (My sense was that people who had been raped were more likely to volunteer, both because they knew first-hand about the problem, and because it was a way to regain control and help others.)

The DoJ study was specifically for the years during which the woman was in college. They studied it over six months and extrapolated.

The terminology is a mess. Michigan doesn't even have a legal definition of "rape." And half the time I try to have a conversation, someone jumps in to derail it by arguing "Oh, that's not rape, that's just sexual assault."
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(Anonymous)
Apr. 14th, 2010 03:06 pm (UTC)
Thank you so much for writing this post. This notion that only a very particular type of nonconsensual sex "counts" as rape is really pernicious.

I was almost raped on three separate occasions. The details are slightly different for each of those times, but the underlying commonalities were: I'd been willing to have sex with the men, but not vaginal sex, and I'd told them so before we went to bed together; they'd agreed; and then they tried to go for it anyway. In each case, I pushed them away and told them "no" again; for two of the guys, I had to do that twice.

And the really awful thing is that, at the time, I never even thought of what they were doing as attempted rape; it was just "what guys did." It wasn't until a couple years after the last incident that I was thinking back and realized, "Wait a second. I said 'No,' and those men tried to have sex with me anyway in a way that I hadn't consented to." And if I'd been just a little less certain of myself, or (on two of the occasions) a little tipsier than I was, then I might not have pushed them away when they did, and I would have been raped.
(Anonymous)
Apr. 14th, 2010 04:28 pm (UTC)
Same anon as in the comment I'm replying to.

I just read The Sexual Victimization of College Women, and apparently (according to their definition, at least) what happened to me wasn't attempted rape, it was attempted sexual coercion, because there was no use of force or the threat of force in any of those encounters.

Which I have to say doesn't make much sense to me. It may have taken me a while to categorize my own experience as attempted rape, but I know that if for instance my little sister had come to me and said that she'd told someone that he couldn't have vaginal sex with her and he tried to do it anyway, I wouldn't hesitate to classify that as attempted rape regardless of whether he'd been using force or had just been relying on her to lie there quietly and let it happen because she didn't want to/was too intimidated to make a fuss.
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awsumpossum
Apr. 14th, 2010 03:09 pm (UTC)
When I think back on all my female friends since highschool, I'm horrified to realize that the 1/4 estimate translates to more like 1/2.
realmjit
Apr. 14th, 2010 04:30 pm (UTC)
One of my college buddies told me that *every* woman he knew had been the victim of an unwanted sexual encounter at some point in their life. some had been raped while in high school, some had been molested as a kid. It still boiled down *every*single*female* that he had ever met.

And his grandfather, by three female circus acrobats.
gypsy_owl
Apr. 14th, 2010 03:19 pm (UTC)
Excuse me if this is something that has been mentioned, but I'm not entirely sure how to find the answer, and I always tend to take statistics with a grain of salt...

My curiosity would be, however, that with the one in four stat, if it is simply one in four women has had at least one rape attempt' or if it is more a case of 'the number of rape and rape attempts, compared to the number of women in higher education, would show one in four women have had cases of rape or attempted rape'. Does that make sense? It's a number thing, and one reason why I don't like statistics. It shouldn't matter which it is. People should not feel like they are victims, and definitely not victims that brought it onto themselves, but the question just goes with understanding stats. If a boyfriend rapes a girl once, and rapes the same girlfriend again.... is that being counted twice, or once?

Sorry, still early and work calls. Hopefully that makes sense.
jimhines
Apr. 14th, 2010 03:28 pm (UTC)
It makes sense, but the report (which I linked to) explains the methodology, including specific questions. Sample question:

"Since school began in fall 1996, has anyone made you have sexual intercourse by using force or threatening to harm you or someone close to you? Just so there is no mistake, by intercourse I mean putting a penis in your vagina."

The questions were asked between February and May 1997, and the results were used to extrapolate the rate of attempted and completed rape over five years at college.

I'm not sure offhand how repeat victimization was measured.

It's another reason I think it's important to link to the statistics/reports whenever possible.
(no subject) - barbarienne - Apr. 14th, 2010 06:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jimhines - Apr. 14th, 2010 06:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gypsy_owl - Apr. 14th, 2010 10:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
cathshaffer
Apr. 14th, 2010 03:25 pm (UTC)
I found the article offensive in many ways, and I think the journalist is rather misguided. It worries me that her most recent book is called The Immigration Solution. However, I am also disturbed by the allegation that the big study on which the "1 in 4" statistic is based, and which is often cited and widely believed, is based on redefining the rape experience differently than the victims themselves. I am a big believer in people defining their own experiences and identities, and I also believe that women know when they have been raped and when they have not, and do not need a scientist to scrutinize their experience and tell them what happened. So is it true that 73% of the "1 in 4" actually disagree with the primary author of the research about whether they have been raped? Have you heard this before? What do you think of it?
jimhines
Apr. 14th, 2010 05:52 pm (UTC)
Okay, gonna start off quoting my own comment from up above about defining rape.

"One of the things I saw working at the rape crisis center is how hard it was for people to say the word rape. They would talk around what had happened to them. They'd hint at it. But actually saying the word was incredibly hard. It made it real. So yes, we defined rape. And we asked if what had happened to them was rape. Most of the time, they said yes. It was hard, but it also helped them to be able to start talking more openly about what happened."

Regarding the Ms. study, I can't really comment. I've never read the study. I've looked for it, because I've heard it referenced before, but never saw a copy. So I can't say what did or didn't work with the methodology.

I do know that it's harder for people to use the label of rape. Do a study asking "Have you been raped," and you'll get a lower incidence than if you ask questions about the behaviors, like "Has anyone ever used physical force, or the threat of physical force, in order to make you have intercourse when you didn't want to?" (That's just one example, and doesn't include all scenarios, of course.)

Pages 4-5 of the DoJ study I reference above cover this pretty well, I think, talking about behaviorally specific questions. "A behaviorally specific question, for example, is one that does not ask simply if a respondent “had been raped”; rather, it describes an incident in graphic language that covers the elements of a criminal offense (e.g., someone “made you have sexual intercourse by using force or threatening to harm you . . . by intercourse I mean putting a penis in your vagina”)."

"...I also believe that women know when they have been raped and when they have not."

This has not always been the case, in my experience. Given how much our culture argues about what rape is, and the prevalence of articles like the one above explaining that certain forms of rape are not "real" rape, is it any wonder some people might hesitate to label their experience this way? Even when their experience meets all of the legal criteria for rape/sexual assault, (depending on which state you're in).
(no subject) - inizitu - Apr. 14th, 2010 05:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - (Anonymous) - Apr. 14th, 2010 06:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - serialbabbler - Apr. 14th, 2010 05:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
This might be triggery for some. - inizitu - Apr. 14th, 2010 05:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: This might be triggery for some. - jimhines - Apr. 14th, 2010 06:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: This might be triggery for some. - inizitu - Apr. 14th, 2010 06:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: This might be triggery for some. - serialbabbler - Apr. 14th, 2010 06:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
tsubaki_ny
Apr. 14th, 2010 03:36 pm (UTC)
I can’t even think about this at the moment. It fills me with hate. This is bad. It fills me with a “fuck this and flee this” mentality. It feels like every day I start to understand more and more why some people think nunneries are a great idea.
tsubaki_ny
Apr. 14th, 2010 03:38 pm (UTC)
(Sorry, I spent my morning commute listening to a couple guys extoll the virtues of several rape-tastic but for some reason still employed -- and extolled -- sports figures today.)
(no subject) - jimhines - Apr. 14th, 2010 03:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tsubaki_ny - Apr. 14th, 2010 03:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tsubaki_ny - Apr. 14th, 2010 06:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
zornhau
Apr. 14th, 2010 03:44 pm (UTC)
This may explain...
...why so many educated young women have such problematic emotional lives. I wonder what the UK statistics are.
rosefox
Apr. 15th, 2010 02:21 pm (UTC)
Re: This may explain...
I can't imagine the emotional lives of the people who rape those women are any less "problematic".
Re: This may explain... - zornhau - Apr. 15th, 2010 08:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: This may explain... - rosefox - Apr. 15th, 2010 08:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: This may explain... - zornhau - Apr. 15th, 2010 10:10 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: This may explain... - jimhines - Apr. 15th, 2010 10:27 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: This may explain... - rosefox - Apr. 16th, 2010 12:20 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: This may explain... - zornhau - Apr. 16th, 2010 07:22 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: This may explain... - jimhines - Apr. 16th, 2010 01:29 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: This may explain... - zornhau - Apr. 16th, 2010 02:11 pm (UTC) - Expand
thelauderdale
Apr. 14th, 2010 03:56 pm (UTC)
I seem to believe that the Ms. study reported quoted a study in which one in ten men said that they would rape a woman if they were sure they could get away with it. The number was 1 in 6 if the words "force her to have sex" were used instead of "rape her."

Are there attempted statistics for men (and women for that matter - NOT that I am trying to derail because yes, I know that it is primarily men) who rape and/or commit sexual assault and/or make the attempt? Not the demographics for rapists (like what ages or what race or what education level, etc.) but the percentage they make up of the larger population. I am having a hard time finding this sort of info.

BTW, speaking of rape as a taboo word, have you noticed that Google will not provide suggested search strings for "rape"? Not the word "rape" itself (even though it brings up 43,600,000 results) or "rapist" (3,330,000), or "i was raped" (3,560,000), or "men who commit rape" (7,300) or "what to do if you are raped" (14,000). The moment Google recognizes rape* or rapist* it goes quiet. "Domestic violence" seems to be a much less scary phrase for Google, though: type it in and immediate suggestions are:

domestic violence statistics
domestic violence facts
domestic violence hotlines
domestic violence stories
domestic violence awareness month
domestic violence massachusetts
domestic violence definition
domestic violence laws
domestic violence against men
domestic violence quotes
jimhines
Apr. 14th, 2010 04:01 pm (UTC)
sylvanstargazer gave me this link in the comments, which might be helpful: http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/03/25/predator-theory/

The Google thing is weird. I wonder what the rationale was for that one...
(no subject) - thelauderdale - Apr. 14th, 2010 04:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thelauderdale - Apr. 14th, 2010 04:25 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - (Anonymous) - Apr. 14th, 2010 06:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thelauderdale - Apr. 14th, 2010 08:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shivi - Apr. 14th, 2010 10:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
klwilliams
Apr. 14th, 2010 04:34 pm (UTC)
I've always been tall, and strong, and good in a fight. And I was twice molested as a little girl (by a neighbor boy and a cousin), and I was raped by my boyfriend when I was 17. I didn't tell anyone about any of it, though I told my high school counselor I'd had sex because I didn't know where to go to get help to stop the bleeding.
jimhines
Apr. 14th, 2010 06:08 pm (UTC)
There's this idea that if you're strong enough, you should be able to fight off an attacker, and if something happens then it's your own fault for not fighting hard enough. It comes up a lot with male rape victims too, the expectation that men should be strong enough to fight off a rapist. But that's not always how it works in the real world, especially when the rapist is someone you trust.

I'm sorry they chose to do this to you. Do you mind if I ask what changed that you're able to talk about it now?
(no subject) - klwilliams - Apr. 14th, 2010 06:14 pm (UTC) - Expand
deborahblakehps
Apr. 14th, 2010 04:35 pm (UTC)
For those who don't think it is rape if the woman knows (or is married to, or going out with, or friends with) her rapist...

Does that mean if someone you know (or are married to) steals your TV, it isn't really stolen?

Good luck watching the game on it :-)
jimhines
Apr. 14th, 2010 06:03 pm (UTC)
I like this analogy.
(no subject) - deborahblakehps - Apr. 14th, 2010 08:45 pm (UTC) - Expand
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