Thank you. This. I put up with years of being told I'm being too sensitive. I still get told that in fanish circles sometimes. It's pretty sad.

Thanks for another eloquently put post!

Very well said!

I think fandom does idealize inclusiveness...

... which can be a bad thing, since accepting that there's a difference between the person who will not shut up about Doctor Who and the person who makes lewd comments at strangers* is important. The first person is occasionally annoying, but he's generally someone who we want to include, because... well, part of being a fan is being really passionate into things, and Doctor Who is one of those things that SF fans like. At worst, he might need a panel mod to remind him to let others ask questions or that this is the Firefly panel, and perhaps he can talk about this in the hotel bar later.

The second person needs to be told that he is welcome only as long as he does not make others unwelcome; and that means reserving the lewd comments to people who expressed interest in such things first.

(Actually both the panel moderator making sure that everyone gets heard and the security guard/con anti-harassment rules are aspects of the same thing, which is that we should include all people* but not all behaviors at all times. It's just that the first fan is more likely to just annoy people, while the second fan may scare people.)

* Or all people who aren't dis-including others by their behaviors.

I've found this is an issue with my first convention coming up next year. I have concerns, but if I try to talk about them in public, it gets dismissed. But I've seen enough said from people in similar groupings to me to know there will be issues. Especially as I'm alone, which is like turning up wearing a target on my back.

I hope I'll have fun too, but it'd be naive to think it'll come without difficulties.

And let's not forget the lack of accessibility when it comes to conferences/conventions. That's been an ongoing problem for years now. My partner is disabled, and we just don't go to cons anymore.

Yep, it's very inclusive of all sorts of cis white male geeks.

Well said, and a really encouraging thing to know that someone realizes.

Fandom is, as you said, inclusive of DIFFERENT people than the "mainstream world." But it isn't really inclusive of ALL people. I think there are strides being made in the right direction, with more cons holding to strict harassment policies, and such. But there's progress yet to be made.

It's sad that we have to keep saying this over and over, but I'm thankful that you keep doing it.

We really need to get a harassment policy in place. But even when I explained to someone that they were being asked to leave for bad behavior, they didn't seem to get it. We do get all kinds of folks!

I think part of the problem is that we as fans want to be- or at least see ourselves as- tolerant and accepting and open. That leads to people ignoring the difference between quirky and jerky, or, welcome to the Geek Social Fallacies.

Yes but....


I work in academia. I'd say the same about my academic circle with all the same qualifications.

Then every so often I have to go do business outside the uni/fandom...

and remember that actually, fandom/academia is so far ahead that I end up suffering time shock as I find myself plummeted back to the 1970s.

Funny you bring this up. I started going to conventions in 2000. I was 18, an aspiring novelist, and female. At that time, I was instantly welcomed, made several friends in the affectionately named Con Circuit, and felt like I was part of a greater community that was tolerant, respectful, and encouraged individuality.

All wonderful aspects that I am saddened to have written in past tense. Right around 2008, the tone of conventions started changing. Little things at first. I'm a costumer so I got some cat-calling. Photographers asking me to pose in uncomfortable positions. I was never harassed "too much" or assaulted or stalked like some of my friends were, probably because having my husband nearby is a great shield for that kind of behavior. No, what really bothers me is the sense of elitism at conventions. If I didn't like the same writer/tv show/movies/art as the other attendees, suddenly I was being treated as if I wasn't good enough, wasn't fan enough, to attend "their" convention. I'm "one of the gang" while we're debating the literary significance of Philip K. Dick and John Crowley, but if I try to compare the writing of Neil Gaiman to Satoshi Kon's movies, suddenly I need to be re-educated into fandom. Oops, I've just let slip that I respect and value anime and manga as an art form. Now I'm one of "those people," a lesser, pitiable creature who hath strayed from the path of the righteous and true fandom, and must change her ways or be exiled to those little anime cons that the ignorant kiddies go to.

I am not kidding. I have been belittled, repeatedly, for including anime and manga into my fandom. The sexual harassment I have some defenses for, but to have my all my contributions to a conversation on the social and scientific ramifications of being able to identify, detect, and transport the human soul as hypothesized in "Vectors" by Michael P. Kube-McDowell or "Biting the Sun" by Tanith Lee become suddenly irrelevant because I have the audacity to compare these books to Ed and Al's sacrifices in their attempt to use forbidden magic to bring their mother back from the dead in "Fullmetal Alchemist," my brain implodes and my tiny feelings are crushed.

Sorry, got really long winded there, which illustrates how important this issue is to me. Unfortunately, because of this type of elitism, I no longer find it fun to go to sci-fi/fantasy conventions. It hurts too much to know I had the camaraderie of convention goers before I discovered anime, but because I expanded my horizons, it's like I'm the Andromeda Strain.

You shoulda been out at youmacon this weekend. I'd say 1/3 to 1/2 of the attendance was of non white origin. I was shocked, and happy!

Part of the reason I think our fandom goes on about its acceptance is that many members of our fandom aren't used to finding acceptance in other venues. When you're not used to being accepted for who you are and having your interests valued, and then you find fandom and suddenly *bang* both you AND your interests are welcomes, well, that's gonna seem like utopia...at least for a little bit. Heady stuff, especially when you're not used to it.

Not that it excuses egregious behavior by any means; just that I can see where the notion springs from (and keeps perennially springing from, as more people find the community).

I've never been to a convention myself, but have heard plenty of stories, both positive AND negative.

Several years ago, someone wrote about the five geek social fallacies, which I think still apply today. The whole 'we are so inclusive!' thing means that sometimes there is pressure to accept even those who are, y'know, massive douchebags.

And this sort of post is one of the big reasons you won that well deserved Hugo. *quiet applause*

You've hit on why I don't do cons. Although I know many wonderful people who do, I can't help but think that I want no part of any community that'd have me as a member.

Thank you for this. Really. Thank you.

I tend to lie to myself that SFF fandom is more accepting than it is, because I self-select. I read blogs like yours or ones that have a social justice bent to them, and I surround myself with real life friends who won't belittle my concerns about under- or misrepresentation. And so I tell myself that fandom is progressive and Thinks About Things and listens to people and I go on my way, whistling merrily. . . until I stumble across a comment thread that makes me physically hurt inside with the stupidity and racism and sexism and oh did I mention the stupidity?

My first foray into larger fandom was when I started blogging this year, where I write a fair bit about gender and race, and one of the first things I realized was that no matter how much I might value changing minds, there's a huge part of me that's perfectly happy to keep my readership in a comfortable little circle of people who won't cause me to waste hours flailing in rage. Which feels cowardly, but . . . (I made a post early on expressing disappointment in how race and gender were handled in Redshirts, which I or other people linked to a few places in fandom where it was discussed very rationally, and Scalzi himself stopped by with a very respectful response . . . and then there was a, shall we say, hyper-trollish discussion of it in one fannish place that I just. Could not. Fathom. It was like a bucket of cold water with the, "I like to interact with people in fandom, but . . . I like my corner of it better" realization.) There's a point at which the frustration becomes not worth it. And I think that's why certain subsets of fandom have tried to carve out safe spaces for themselves, particularly online, places within fandom where they can find their own "acceptance" . . . and it's a shame that this is necessary. And then, of course, there are realms (like publishing) and levels of interaction in fandom (like cons) where self-selecting becomes impractical or impossible . . .

tl;dr: Parts of fandom are amazing, but other parts are broken and horrible, and it's wonderful and cathartic to hear people acknowledge that and say we should fix it. So thank you. Again.

p.s. -- Also, it would be nice if all those straight white male cis dudes who have gone their whole lives upset about "not fitting in" because of SFF interests would consider what it's like to "not fit in" in the mainstream because of SFF interests AND find oneself a tiny minority in a fandom that seems like a like-minded utopia to others.

You're a wise (and observant) man, Jim ;o)

I look at it slightly differently - IMAO, fandom is accepting, but not very welcoming. We'll accept an awful lot, but we do a lousy job at making the accepted range feel welcome.

On this subject, you might find OnyxCon of interest. It is not limited to comics. This year had Steven Barnes as a guest.

Agreed. Different conditions exist at different conventions, and even, from year to year; but the inclusiveness still needs a bit of work.

I also find it instructive that many of us who do not feel welcome OR accepted have been blogging about it to crickets and tumbleweeds, and you get immediate and thoughtful responses.